Archive for July, 2006

Scenarios – responding to Mark

Saturday, July 22nd, 2006

Ive been surprised by Mark’s responses (see comments). I recognize that this is a controversial and emotive issue but surely we are mature enough to handle it.

Mark seems to assume that I’m advocating some kind of open slather on innocent children. Again, I do not support adults exploiting adolescents or children. No adult should attempt to seduce any adolescent or child. It is absolutely essential that children and adolescents are allowed a safe space in which to explore their sexuality and they must always have the power to say no to unwanted approaches.

So to make this issue clearer let me detail some scenarios based on Victorian law. The age of consent is 16, but a child above the age of 10 may have sexual relations with a peer no more than two years their senior. At no stage does this permit assault or force.

A mature 14.8 year old girl has her first experience with her 16.2 year old boyfriend. Their age difference is 2 years and 6 months. Her parents discover this fact and demand the boy be charged, against the wishes of the girl who claims she consented. Under the law the boy is prosecuted and the girl leaves home in protest.

A mature 15 year old male student has an affair with a 24 year old teacher. She is charged and he protests that he fully consented. The press call the Teacher a sexual predator, despite the student’s objections that he approached the teacher first and she resisted, finally giving in on the third approach. The court case angers the boy and interrupts his schooling. This was an actual case. (note – there are two issues here: one is the age of the student and the second is the breach of trust/responsibility in the student/teacher relationship. The latter professional consideration applies equally to University students well above the age of consent).

A 20 year old boyfriend fondles the breast of his 15 year old girlfriend with her full consent. Her parents find out and the man is charged but the case is dropped, however his name is placed on a list of known sexual offenders. Many years later he is a respected and popular teacher when his past is revealed because of new and stringent sex offender checks. Despite no record of his offending against students he is sacked. The school community protests and demands his return but the government stands firm, even calling the teacher a sex offender. This horrifies the former girlfriend. The teacher has a nervous breakdown and looses his career – his crime? He fondled a breast. This is an actual case.

A 14 year old who has had sex several times falls in love with a 26 year old and has sex with him. She seduces him and claims she knew exactly what she was doing. She keeps it to herself and close friends and nothing happens.

A 13 year old boy realises he is gay and has a crush on a 21 year old friend of a friend. He does nothing about it because he is afraid on several levels, firstly at being gay, secondly at being under age. He suffers nonetheless because his love is unconsumated. He gets depressed and commits suicide.

In the US a young man of 16 lives in a state that has strict statutory rape provisions that do not allow for a period of peer tolerance. At a party he has drunken sex with his 14.8 sometime girlfriend. She gets pregnant and the state charges him with stat rape, despite the girl’s clear protestations. He does time in a juvenile detention centre and his name is put on a permanent sex offender list. This afects his attempts to find employment. He gets depressed and kills himself. This is a true case based on a recent US documentary.

A precocious 9 year old who is big for her age and is in early puberty seduces a local 13 year old boy for a dare. She lies about her age. She gives him oral sex. No-one finds out, but under the law the boy has committed the offence.

Age of consent, results of recent survey

Saturday, July 22nd, 2006

Coincidently today’s Sunday Age has an article which explores the attitude of Australian teenage girls to sex. The answer is that they are having sex younger than ever before. The article contains the info that for the generation born between 1941-50 the average age of first time sex was 19, for those born between 81-86 it was 16, it has slipped lower for those born after 86. Recent research done by the Australian Research Centre in Sex, Health and Society confirms this trend. For instance, in 1997 48% of year 12 ‘girls’ had had sex. It has increased to 55% today.

The well known adolescent psychologist Michael Carr-Gregg says there is absolutely no doubt that young girls are having sex. He adds that he even gets letters from 10 year-olds who say they have just lost their virginity.

Of course most of this occurs between peers. There is a fear that if the age of consent is lowered that this will expose ‘children’ to increased exploitation by adults, but I know of no evidence to support this fear. Most teens are not attracted to adults and are far more astute than teens of earlier generations.

It’s interesting to read Malinowski’s account of the Trobriand Islands. He claimed that there are no sexual constraints on Trobriand children and they freely indulge in explicit sexual play. He noted that amongst the younger children the play was confined to, well, play. They had a version of the game ‘mummies and daddies’ that was much like the game Western children play, except it sometimes involved imitating (or actual) intercourse. As they got older they formed brief relationships and flirted and gossipped, again, much as modern teens do, except that explicit sexual activity was part of the flirting. As they got older they established longer lasting relationships, finally marrying. Today’s article repeats this pattern stating that

“There is also evidence that after an initial burst of curiosity, teenagers become less promiscuous as they mature.”

So there seems to be a clear pattern of natural curiosity and experimentation leading to more stable, long lasting relationships.

Interestingly Malinowski was also concerned about Trobriand children being exploited by the adults. He asked about this and the adults were shocked that this might even be possible. They said that they did not know of a case. The adds weight to the idea that exploitation by adults is learnt behaviour, and pathological – a particular condition of sexually repressive societies where normal curiosity and sexual development is suppressed.

In my view society needs to recognize this natural development. Yes, children need to be protected from exploitative elders, but people ought to wake up to what children are naturally really like.

There are two forms of adult predatory behaviour, sexual predation and moral predation. The moral predators are just as much of a concern. These are the moral conservatives who sow the seeds of fear and repression in order to serve their ‘religious’ agenda.

And btw Mark – the last time I had a magic mushroom was in 78, nearly 30 years ago.

Mark’s aside

Saturday, July 22nd, 2006

I was disappointed to read Mark’s one liner. It was snide and completely mystifying. I gather he disagrees with what I have written. In which case he should have taken the time to at least explain what he was objecting to – everything, or just some things? Surely we can do better than such brief put downs. Especially given that this site was inspired by concern over Ken Wilber’s adolescent put downs.

Group Moderation of Spam

Saturday, July 22nd, 2006

Edward: 

We need to moderate as a group the increasing amount of spam and porn that is starting to pour in. I’ve been deleting about 1-2 of these per day and this morning I’ve deleted about 10 already. It’s the price of keeping comments open to the public but we have to manage it as a group, as it’s too much for any one person.

You can help manage this by going to the Admin link after logging in, then choose ”manage.” In the “comments” and “awaiting approval” tabs you can view all the latest comments and delete those that are obviously spam. Thanks.

Age of …

Saturday, July 22nd, 2006

Seriously Ray, I think you need to give those magic mushrooms a rest.

Mark

Age of consent – part 2

Friday, July 21st, 2006

Another aspect to this issue is the concept of the child (I’m going into some details discussed in my article at Frank’s site but I’m assuming a slightly different audience). To be pedantic the term child is readily misused. A child is technically pre-pubertal and adolescents are pubertal and post-pubertal. The term paedophile is also misused. Paedophiles are exclusively attracted to children – ephebophiles are attracted to adolescents (most child sexual abuse is at the hands of non-paedophile opportunists with poor impulse control, and most of this is directed at young adolescents). Ephebophilia has only been problematicised in the English speaking world in the latter part of the 20th century, up until that time an ephebophile could marry someone as young as 12.

It’s both interesting and disturbing to now read and hear people refer to individuals under the age of consent as children. It’s an emotive issue and I’ve heard adults refer to a 15 year old ‘as a child who has had her innocence stolen from her’ or a 17 year old where the age of consent is 18.

All of this has been accompanied with the growing myth of the innocent child and of childhood as a set period of almost enforced ignorance and innocence. The idea that a childhood can be stolen from someone is absurd. What? Did the child jump from being 4 to 14? One wonders about children raised in difficult circumstances and in cultures where childhood is considered differently. Should children be protected from the realities of life, such as death? Certainly conservative moralists believe they should be protected from the worst horror of them all, sex. Yes, I’ve actually heard people say that being seduced by an adult is the worst thing that can happen to a child. Pardon me, but I thought being killed, or having one’s family killed, or starving slowly in the desert, or having one’s house bombed might be far worse. Yes, better a child see her parents killed than her loose her innocence.

So how did the myth of the innocent child arise and why? And why is childhood being pushed into late adolescence, despite the developmental evidence?

One thing we can say here is that responses to the issue of child sexuality are determined by the moral stage of the individual. The hysteria around child sexuality is a function of pre-conventional and conventional moral thinkers. The myth of the innocent child started to arise at the same time as modernism/rationalism challenged mythic and magic worldviews. Those adults who are most emotionally involved in the myth of the perfect and innocent child are largely at the conventional stage. It’s a projection – the child is the empty vesel onto which the hopes and fears of conventional and pre-conventional adults are projected. What they really fear is the loss of innocence/simplicity in an incrasingly complex world.

The problem is that real children are not innocent, empty vessels. The myth of innocent childhood can be used to stunt developmental progress.

Ray

Age of consent, integral approach – Ray

Thursday, July 20th, 2006

I’m going start using categories – this is the first entry for Integral Sexology. I’ve written an essay outlining some issues the field of Integral Sexology (available at Integralworld) might need to consider. Others are free to add their critcisms and additions. I can’t claim to have a comprehensive grasp of the field – these are just beginning thoughts.

The issue of the age of consent is perhaps a minor one but it reveals some interesting issues and attitudes. It’s an emotive issue with any discussion of an appropriate age at which a child/adolescent can consent to sexual relations leading to all sorts of exaggerated fears of ‘enabling’ paedophiles. Yet an objective study of the issue reveals some intersting (and perhaps) shocking facts.

First a brief history: for nearly two thousand years the English speaking world had followed Roman law in regard to the age of consent. It was considered to be 12. It seems as if most of Europe followed suit. Despite conservative Christians now supporting a high age of consent the Bible does not actually make a clear statement on this issue. However Jewish custom is quite clear. A girl reaches maturity at age 12 and a boy at age 13 (Bat and Bar Mitzvah respectively – though modern practice has raised the age to 13 for many girls). So in this regard the Judeo-Christian tradition is actually in accord with Roman law. This also means that Mary may very well have been pregnant with Jesus when was 12 or 13 (does this make God a paedophile?)

I am familiar with the situation in the English speaking world but not Europe. I assume that Europe followed England in changing the age of consent upwards – but I may be wrong about that. In which case it would be good to be corrected. The marriageable age was formalized at 12 in 1285. Up until that time there was no law and local custom was followed. Then in 1576 the law was changed to make it an offence to have sexual relations with a child under 10. Yes, 10. The marriageable age was still set at 12 but 10 was the official age of consent. Having sex with a child was not considered a serious offence and so having consensual sex with a child under 10 was only considered a misdemeanour.

The situation remained this way until the late 1800’s. It is a pattern repeated in most English speaking countries, including the US. The law was reformed in 1875 after growing concerns about child prostitution, including the export of English girls to Europe. It was raised to 13. Another scandal and activism from Josephine Butler, a feminist and Christian social reformer, saw the age of consent raised to 16 in 1885. However, the marriageable age remained 12 until 1929. The age of 16 has since been used as a template for other constituencies in the English speaking world, some constituencies, particularly in the US, have opted for a higher age of 17 or 18. The US sems to have followed England in reforming the law to a higher age of consent, but with different states taking longer than others. Some Southern states did not change their laws until the 60’s and 70’s. The singer Loretta Lyne married at 13 and another singer, Jerry Lee Lewis married his 13 year-old cousin (Hawaii maintained an age of 12 in consideration of Polynesian custom).

Like many I had assumed that the age of 16 was chosen because it represented the best idea of when a child could reasonably consent. This is actually not the case. It’s an arbitrary age based on a cultural conception of when an unmarried girl/woman ‘ought’ to be able to have sex. The age of consent can only really be understood as a reflection of cultural values. And this is where we see important differences between cultures. Interestingly the Spanish speaking world has a lower age of consent than Northern Europeans. The Spanish age of consent is 13 and in some South American countries it is still 12. The Asian sphere has also had a low age; South Korea is 13 and it was 13 in Japan until recently – as has the Polynesian sphere. The English speaking world actually has the highest age of consent (the situation in many Muslim countries is more complicated because some prohibit unmarried sex altogether, whilst some allow unmarried consent at 21 but do not have a minimum marriageable age – in Islam married intercourse can begin three months after first menstruation, which can happen under age 12, Aisha, Mohammed’s second wife was 9 according to some Islamic sources).

So why 16? The age was set as a result of a public outcry over child prostitution at a time when social reformers were active in what has loosely been called the ’social purity’ movement. There were necessary and important reforms in child labour laws, slavery and prostitution – there was also a growing alcohol prohibition movement. The central idea was that the law could be used to push several social reform agendas and the age of consent reform movement was concerned with the idea of ’social’ harm. This idea became the dominant reason behind age of consent laws. The concern was not really the welfare of the child, but rather the supposed moral harm suffered by society when there was a pool of young, unmarried girls available.

The fact that the laws were not designed to benefit the child/adolescent is borne out in the way the rights of the supposed victim are abused by the state. The laws are particularly punitive in many US states where sex with a minor is regarded as statutory rape. I recall reading an account from a Californian cop who said he refused to arrest a 17 year old girl for having sex with her not quite 16 year old boyfriend. Under Californian law she would be charged with stat rape and her name placed on a registry of sex offenders. Such harsh laws have caused the suicide of several young people because of the stigma. Here it is important to note that most of these cases do not involve a much older man seducing a ‘minor’ but peers who happen to be around the age of consent. In Australia this offence used to be called carnal knowledge.

What is important to note here is that these laws are not designed to protect adolescents and children, in fact they are often used to punish them. For example, a mature adolescent girl of 14 who has an 18 year old boyfriend is legally unable to consent and the state can prosecute the boyfriend regardless of the wishes of the 14 year old. She does not have a voice.

The laws are designed to enforce a moral code. And this is where the religious right hop onto the band wagon and demand a high age of consent (despite the Biblical age of consent being 12), because it allows them to control and punish unmarried sex.

But is there a good developmental reason to have an age of consent? The answer is both yes and no. Some teens are not ready to fully consent but some clearly are. But this is where we get into a mess. If we take Kohlberg’s moral stages as a guide we’d have to say that consent can occur when an individual reaches a certain moral stage. Given that the majority of adults are at stage 3 then that ought to be when consent can be given. But as you all know, some adults never reach stage 3. Furthermore, some children can reach level 3 well before the legal age of consent. So, this means that some 20 year-olds can’t consent but some 12 year-olds can. The problem with a set age of consent is that development does not adhere to a strict timetable, children mature physically, morally, cognitively, emotionally, etc, at different rates.

There is another factor to consent and that is experience. If you are aware of the consequences of your actions then you can consent, but the best teacher of understanding consequences is experience. In terms of the age of sexual consent knowledge is an essential component. But here’s the thing – the moral conservatives also want to stop adolescents from getting sexual knowledge, they want them to remain ignorant. There is a vast difference between an ignorant 13 year old and a knowledgeable 13 year old, and also, an ignorant 18 year old and an experienced 18 year old.

Another factor is the actual statistics on when children/adolescents naturally begin to have sex. Regardless of what the law actually says adolescents have sex anyway. Now I don’t have the statistical spread with me but it seems roughly consistent across cultures. Precocious girls start around 11, 12 and most have had sex by age 17 (a mean average might be 14-18).

Okay, to summarize. The age of consent laws are a LL (cultural) method to address a moral concern about unmarried sex. The application of these laws actually cause harm to the adolescents concerned (through intrusive actions from various authorities, police, courts, government welfare agencies) and are not actually based on solid UL or UR evidence, especially developmental. Furthermore, the LL considerations are specific to a narrow special interest group and are not supported through cross-cultural research or objective LR considerations. In other words, many cultures survive moral collapse without having a specific age of consent.

I have maintained in other articles that the conservative Judeo-Christian moral code permeates Western society in such a way that even progressives are unaware. How many progressives accept a high age of consent and even assume it has a rational basis? How many are aware that for most of human history across several cultures the majority view is that sexual activity can begin in early adolescence and that prohibiting sexual activity until 16, 17 or 18 is actually an aberration based on the irrational fear of social harm?

I think Integral theory supports radical reform of age of consent laws. Yes, individuals (children, adolescents and adults) need protection from sexual predators and assault and rape laws need to remain strong. But the law needs to have the flexibility to realise that consent is based on the individual’s developmental level and that this cannot be set at a given age. Some 12 year-olds can consent and some 19 year-olds cannot.

I believe that the age of consent laws should be replaced by ‘illegal seduction’ laws. Until the age of 18 (even 21) the onus is on the more developed individual in the relationship to ensure full consent. The less developed individual can claim illegal seduction and have the offender charged. The court will have to decide if the ‘victim’ was taken advantage of (realising the possibility of vexatious claims). However, I also think the state should not be able to prosecute such cases against the wishes of the alleged victim and all statutory rape provisions should be removed. The court will have to be able consider developmental gaps (particularly in teacher/student cases), as well as power relationships (worker/boss), and so forth, but age limitations should not be automatic. This will allow a mature 13 year old to have a sexual relationship if she/he freely chooses without fear of consequence – whilst also knowing that they can prosecute someone who tries to take advantage of them. I should add that many police forces do a bad job of protecting the vulnerable anyway. The naive 16 year old who is given too much alcohol by a 30 year old and taken advantage of actually has no recourse under law – because of her age she is supposed to know better.

On a final note – it is important to acknowledge that much of the hurt in first sexual real;tionships is not over having sex but in being emotionally hurt. Age of consent laws can be used to avenge a broken heart. But a naive 14 year old giorl who falls in love with someone older is no more or less vulnerable than a naive 19 year old. The 14 year old can use the law to punish whereas the 19 year old cannot.

It is also important to note the double standards based on sex. Women are considered vulnerable and innocent and the younger woman/older man scenario is far more controversial than the younger man/older woman version. There have been several interesting cases in Oz of the younger man, older woman situation. This is also a nuanced area. The Mary Kay Letourneau case in the US was controversial. The result has been that she has married her student lover – yet she was severley punished and publicly condemned against the wishes of her now husband. This was a prime case of the state prosecuting Letourneau, not her young lover. Immense harm was done to him and to the two children he fathered with her – and to what moral gain?

Ray

Social Holons, the NLP approach – Ray

Tuesday, July 18th, 2006

In just reading the comments by Mark to Edward’s recent post – I don’t believe there is a collective monad, or whatever you want to call it. A collective makes decisions through a complex process of conscious, semi-conscious and unconscious agreements, conflicts, compromises, understandings, accomodations, etc.

I suddenly thought of NLP (NeuroLinguistic Programming) which teaches that much of our communication is non-verbal. Some recent work has discovered the importance of micro-expressions in communication (especially uncovering lying). Any well trained NLPer knows about micro-expressions (and micro, micro-expressions). Interestingly only around one in a thousand can see micro-expressions. I happen to be one of them and to me they stick out like a blush. The point is this, much of the agreement making in collectives occurs at this micro level. People situate themselves within ‘groupthink’ by a set of subtle signals. Furthermore, as basic group dynamics tells us, people have a range of subtext motives for situating themselves in certain positions.

In short, there is a surface dynamic and layers of sub-surface dynamic. Much of the consensus action happens at the sub-surface level in such a way as it appears the collective has a mind of its own.

I would suggest that a skilled person could enter into any collective, analyse the dynamic and consciously alter the ‘groupthink’. I’ve done this myself in small groups. It takes more time in large groups. The first step is to decide who the surface and sub-surface leaders are. And here it is absolutely essential to work out who the real leaders are because they may not be the nominated surface leaders. To give you a very crude example, the real leader may be a quiet female to whom the dominant males are consciously or unconsciously attracted to. If she signals her disapproval using non-verbal means the dominant males will change their behaviour until she signals her approval. But it can be much more subtle than that (she may be reflecting off another person for a nonsexual subtext reason, leading to third or fourth generation dynamics).

Ray

Ray – Blood Brotherhoods

Tuesday, July 18th, 2006

I love a good doco – last night on Oz’s SBS, a French doco on Neo-Nazis and White racists. It’s the same theme I explored in Blood Brotherhoods. Groups of young men attracted to a violent ideology as a way to give meaning to their lives. I don’t see a lot of difference between Islamist supremacists and White supremacists. It’s the same attraction to a warrior code that claims to be defending the pure people from the hated other.

In fact the three top ideologies that attract political violence are nationalism/fascism, Marxism and Islamism.

Ray

Ray – Terrorism and integral theory

Tuesday, July 18th, 2006

Just got a notice in my email box telling me that the Society for Terrorism Research has just been set up www.societyforterrorismresearch.org. This is an initiative that has come from Michael Commons and others. Michael is involved in both developmental psychology and political psychology. It’s interesting to see that my name gets a mention in the notes on how the society got started – as a result of the 2002 Society for Research in Adult Development conference which had terrorism as its theme. I gave a paper at that conference (which can be read on Frank Visser’s site) called The Blood Brotherhoods. It’s interesting and a bit strange to see my name mentioned on this site, primarily because I didn’t know it was being planned. So it will be interesting to see if any interest is generated as a result. Ray who? Lol.

Anyway, it got me thinking today about where I would go now with the study of terrorism. I think it is now important to define the various positions on terrorism and explain how those positions affect the study of terrorism AND how they affect policy responses to terrorism. What I’ve ben thinking about lately is that the problem of terrorism is not just about certain types of political violence but about a meta-narrative which includes the conflict and conflation of competing narratives about terrorism.

I’ve written a number of articles on Islam and the reason behind doing so was my desire to know what motivates the Islamist ideology. After giving my paper in 2002 I realized that a significant number of people in the West simply did not understand the motivations of Islamist terrorists (of course, there are other terrorists, Tamil Tigers, etc) so I wanted to share what I had discovered about what Islamists themselves say their motives are as opposed to Western liberal or conservative narratives about their motives.

The trick is to be able to enter into another narrative in such a way as to be seen to understand the narrative by someone within that narrative. Interestingly enough I got an email from an Australian Muslim and Islamist sympathiser who said I had got it right. Islamists are often quite candid and actually more honest about the violent aspects of Islam. Bin Laden models himself on what Mohammed actually did as much as what he said. The guy actually thought I was a Muslim. When I told him I was not he stopped our exchange.

I think it would be useful to list the different narratives about terrorism and map how they interact. I’ve been watching the terrorism debate closely for the last four years and I’ve heard a wide variety of opinion about the ‘real’ cause of terrorism. Here are my first suggestions.

1. It’s caused by the desperation of disadvantaged people.
2. It’s a reaction to Western imperialism.
3. It’s a reaction to the Israeli occupation of Palestine
4. It’s a result of a particular (Islamist) ideology
5. It’s the result of an internal struggle within Islam
6. It’s a reaction to modernism
7. It’s the assertion of Islam as the ‘true’ religion
8. It’s the reaction of people who believe their lands have been occupied
9 It’s about a simple grab for political power by extremists
10.It’s a Western (US/Jewish) conspiracy to fool us

No doubt there are more. Once having idenitified the different narratives I think we should examine why people invest in one narrative over another. Obviously those who see US imperialism as the cause of everything will see it behind terrorism. And those who are concerned about economic inequality will favour the notion that poverty causes terrorism.

The next thing to do – and the most difficult – is to try and identify, based on the best evidence, which narratives are the least/most accurate. This is where an AQAL approach would be useful. What facts are some narratives emphasising, and what are they missing or even avoiding? At the moment the poverty argument is not doing too well – many of the terrorists are well educated and middle-class. Here we should introduce the idea of ‘perceived’ injustice versus ‘actual’ injustice.

Many of the narratives are based on perceptions of what is happening, many of which are partial or just plain wrong (ie, no Jews died in 9/11 – try telling that to the Jews who lost loved ones). We need to ask what the motivations for believing certain narratives are, particularly the more far-fetched. What do people gain?

It’s also important to understand that this is now about more than the initial acts of terrorism but about the reaction to the original acts – and the chain reactions.

I should add that it is easy to play the role of the passive observer and not commit to any particular narrative, but the current crisis needs a solution (or set of solutions) and that necessitates making a judgement about the relative accuracy and usefulness of certain narratives.

On a final note – I’m kicking myself for not recording it, or at least making notes – but a recent doco on terrorism research echoed many of the things I was saying in the Blood Brotherhoods about restless young men finding meaning and belonging in warrior ideologies/causes.

Ray